Following my personal overview of the youngsters out of Llywelyn Fawr and you may Joanna therefore the answers it acquired, I seemed again from genealogical pages dedicated to Gwladus Ddu. While it is true, due to the fact multiple genealogists point out, one to regarding lack of specified evidence somehow, the newest label of mommy from Gwladus Ddu have to are ‘unknown’, I found you don’t need to alter my personal end one their own mommy is actually Joanna rather than Tangwystyl.
Vat
That after that resource about its students ‘s the pursuing the conceptual regarding ‘Leaders and you can Queens out-of Britain’ an authoritative guide, written by Oxford College or university Force, web page 106:
‘Llywelyn abdominal Iorwerth, b.1173, child out-of Iorwerth Drwyndwn (‘Flatnose’) and you can Marared, daughter of Madog ap Maredudd; acc. east Gwynedd 1195; hitched Joan, illegitimate child from King John, 1205; issue: Gruffudd (illegitimate), Dafydd, Gwenllian, Helen, Gwladus, Margaret, Susanna; passed away eleven April 1240; buried: Aberconwy.’
To prove it is not only me personally one to believes so, allow me to offer that genealogist who’s a lover out of Sharon: “I’m very partial to Sharon Kay Penman’s courses. As they are not strictly biographical, I’m much warmer depending on their own work to ‘fill out the blanks’ (because of the number of look she definitely set in her courses), than in in fact mentioning specific genealogical supplies that i have come all over in my look (I am aware we run into supply this way). In order to those who have not yet comprehend her functions, I will suggest it most highly, particularly if you want to get a getting for what existence are particularly 800 years back.”
Their particular search getting ‘HBD’, ‘Drops the newest Shadow’ and you may ‘New Reckoning’, accomplished up until the introduction of the internet, was it is a good
Pursuing the questions presented by the Beth, Suzanne and you will Sandy in particular, I set about contrasting this new term out of Joanna’s mom (described hereafter, to own simple site as the ‘Clemence’ maybe not ‘Clementia’) as a result of an affair with the to-be-queen John. This action became a great deal more state-of-the-art than I would personally has actually think you can! Once running up of several blind alleys, primarily due to seeking to get together again the fresh new chronology of a single toward almost every other, We have compensated on which observe. I do not point out that the thing i have written is actually definitive in every figure otherwise setting, therefore the the fact is that we will likely not be sure from their identity.
(a) Brand new illegitimate Joanna, daughter out of “Clemence,” is actually truly created of wedlock –– as it is proved from the Honorius III’s decree claiming their particular legitimate in the April 1226, even though versus prejudice towards the king otherwise field of England (we.elizabeth., offering their own no-claim compared to that throne). Brand new decree, that has been transcribed on the totally new, unpublished Check in out-of Honorius III (Reg. thirteen, fol. 122 ), claims inter alia you to definitely “Johannes Rex anglie solutus te genuerit de- soluta,” and that, I am advised, means “King John out of The united kingdomt, when unmarried , fathered your of the a single lady.”
It indicates Joanna might have become produced zero after than simply 1189 when John hitched Isabella regarding valentime is it real Gloucester. Their unique mommy, “Clemence” was most likely French otherwise Norman, once the proof regarding the patent moves away from John’s leadership suggests that Joan is lead out-of Normandy so you can The united kingdomt in the December 1203, to prepare to have matrimony so you’re able to Llywelyn abdominal Iorwerth (look for lower than). Joanna died when you look at the Feb 1237.
(b) John’s legitimate child Joan, of the Isabella regarding Angouleme (married to help you John when you look at the 1200 on many years a dozen!), came to be on Gloucester on the twenty two July 1210 (understand the Tewkesbury Annals regarding the Moves Series, vol. 36.i, p. 59; this new Worcester Annals, ibid., vol. 36.iv, p. 399; in addition to Rotuli Litterarum Patencium for John’s Rule, pp. 124, 143). Here is the Joan just who after that married Alexander II regarding Scotland and you can she died inside 1238, certain weeks immediately following Joanna (this could be the cause of some of the distress obvious within a couple of female). She kept no problem from the Alexander II.
Connect with us